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+--- Sujet : Photoshoot in Paris (/thread-16331.html)
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RE: Photoshoot in Paris - KarlHungus - Mar. 27 Sep 2016
We've had some issues lately with someone who-must-not-be-named that was into creating "art" to "help" "save" our underground historical heritage. In a way you are lucky because he set the bar so low that you'll need to get really inventive to do something we'll find outrageous. We have seen things you foreign people wouldn't believe...
Anyway, to each their own point of view regarding payment for a guide. Some will say that if there are people willing to pay, there will be people ready to charge for this and that it's just business, while others will spit in your face and fart in your general direction if you start to talk about money. You can always go the middle way and offer to provide the booze for the guide. It's a widely used method to compensate for someone's time.
Btw Georges is a fucking fascist, don't listen to him.
RE: Photoshoot in Paris - PoleNinja - Mar. 27 Sep 2016
(Mar. 27 Sep 2016, 16:08)KarlHungus a écrit : We've had some issues lately with someone who-must-not-be-named that was into creating "art" to "help" "save" our underground historical heritage. In a way you are lucky because he set the bar so low that you'll need to get really inventive to do something we'll find outrageous. We have seen things you foreign people wouldn't believe...
Anyway, to each their own point of view regarding payment for a guide. Some will say that if there are people willing to pay, there will be people ready to charge for this and that it's just business, while others will spit in your face and fart in your general direction if you start to talk about money. You can always go the middle way and offer to provide the booze for the guide. It's a widely used method to compensate for someone's time.
Btw Georges is a fucking fascist, don't listen to him.
This explains a lot. Thank you. I can definitely understand negative experiences. I will, in the future, offer booze.
. haha.
RE: Photoshoot in Paris - KarlHungus - Mar. 27 Sep 2016
Well to be honest it's a local sport here on this forum to take cheap shots at newcomers asking for help (guides, maps, accesses...). We like to go witch hunting whenever we can.
You at least came here with a real project and examples of your work. I guess this explains why you got the kind of moderate answers from others above (people just asking for a guide to explore are also told they got "the wrong approach", just with a different, harsher lexical field)
RE: Photoshoot in Paris - Georges V - Mar. 27 Sep 2016
Citation :I think this is fair, but also more than I have. But thank you. Also, it sounds like according to this community that you couldn't be reputable because you asked for the money. This is based on your fellow commenters.
To be fair, this community is not used to location requests for what seems to be almost professional purposes. When we get a message from a fellow explorer from overseas, we might consider showing them our playground, having them implicitly commit to do the same when a stranger will asks them for a helping hand in the future. When we're on an equal footing, no money is exchanged. It's a give and take, a bit like on couchsurfing.
On the other hand, you're the exception. You seem to have a budget to travel the world, you did finance what seems to be quite expensive photo equipment (I have nothing of the kind), and well, I'm assuming your models are travelling too. Or aren't doing it just for exposure, as exposure doesn't pay rent. I'm also guessing that you're doing this for a living or will have a return on investment sooner or later. Hence, if you wish to rely on someone's time and expertise to show you places, it'd be only fair to pay for the service. Otherwise, it brings the question of "what's in it for me?".
I work freelance, and am faced daily with people who want me to do things for them for spec (a video worth watching: #saynotospec), from which they will benefit, but I won't really get anything in return. Should I have four hours to spare, I'll then rather put it into something I will enjoy.
I'm not trying to change your mind, just explaining where I'm coming from.
Btw, don't take the answers you're getting here too seriously. Ckzone is one of the finest troll farms the internet can offer. Writing in a foreign language doesn't do justice to most of the contributions either: when you speak a foreign language, your ideas are limited by your ability to express yourself, i.e. the reasoning gets dumbed down.
I wish you to find a suitable guide. There must be a few out there who'll most likely get in touch via private messages.
RE: Photoshoot in Paris - PoleNinja - Mar. 27 Sep 2016
(Mar. 27 Sep 2016, 20:25)Georges V a écrit :Citation :I think this is fair, but also more than I have. But thank you. Also, it sounds like according to this community that you couldn't be reputable because you asked for the money. This is based on your fellow commenters.
To be fair, this community is not used to location requests for what seems to be almost professional purposes. When we get a message from a fellow explorer from overseas, we might consider showing them our playground, having them implicitly commit to do the same when a stranger will asks them for a helping hand in the future. When we're on an equal footing, no money is exchanged. It's a give and take, a bit like on couchsurfing.
On the other hand, you're the exception. You seem to have a budget to travel the world, you did finance what seems to be quite expensive photo equipment (I have nothing of the kind), and well, I'm assuming your models are travelling too. Or aren't doing it just for exposure, as exposure doesn't pay rent. I'm also guessing that you're doing this for a living or will have a return on investment sooner or later. Hence, if you wish to rely on someone's time and expertise to show you places, it'd be only fair to pay for the service. Otherwise, it brings the question of "what's in it for me?".
I work freelance, and am faced daily with people who want me to do things for them for spec (#saynotospec), from which they will benefit, but I won't really get anything in return. Should I have four hours to spare, I'll then rather put it into something I will enjoy.
I'm not trying to change your mind, just explaining where I'm coming from.
Btw, overall don't take the answers you're getting here too seriously. Ckzone is one of the finest troll farms the internet can offer. And I wish you to find a suitable guide. There must be a few out there who'll most likely get in touch via private messages.
I feel that's reasonable, and as mentioned, similar to the parkour community of which I've long been a part of.
My budget to travel the world is that I am working all over the world, outside of photography. Photography is my art, but I am a professional athlete, and I am invited to travel the world and teach workshops. If you are curious, my instagram for athletics is: instagram.com/doctorkenpoleninja
The models often are doing it because they want nice pictures and memories. I have something of a reputation with the acrobatic and dance world, and so people all over the world contact me to shoot with them. When I am in a location, I try to find something I am interested in, and I charge people to cover my own costs, but not much more. Hourly, I earn less than minimum wage when shooting photography. My day job, in the US, is that I am a doctor. So, it is this unique combination of doctor, athlete, and photographer that attracts these specific models to me.
I try to offer whatever I can in return, that the individual would find valuable, but this is where it gets difficult. As I said, every culture is different. When I was in the philippines, I had to bribe local authorities to let me document the slums and the poor living conditions there. That took many days of constant questioning, just to find the right people who could bribe the right people to grant me permission. Even then, it was very limited, though my purpose was purely journalistic. When I was in Tasmania, or Iceland, no locals cared, and I could wander as I wished. Not many places are like this. When in Chile, I thought it would be easy, but the prices people wanted for any services were absolutely stunning, more than the flight to Chile from the USA, sometimes. In Korea, people are willing to help just because they are kind people and the communities are so strong.
So as I said, every place is different, and I can only discover what people in a certain location want in thanks, and try my best to offer it.
I currently have no plan on return-on-investment. I finance this desire purely with my other jobs, and partly with the occasional "vanity shoot" which I despise. I know what you mean about freelance issues, as a doctor, because people constantly ask me for "free advice", or to look at something "real quick". They don't understand my student loans were more than the cost of their house.
But thank you very much for your informative responses. I have received, in fact, a couple offers which I very much appreciate and will do my best to "return the favor" on.